Well said, the complicity of some Jews in orchestrating there own demise is a mystery to me.

BobG --

It's frustrating, in the very least, to watch as people who are so out of touch with reality but convinced they know what the hell they're doing take a path that can only lead to the oblivion of something that might never be retrievable.

I think the American Jews are so caught up in being "grateful" for being saved (WW2 Holocaust) that they cannot see what is really happening.
I could be wrong, but it seems to me they still live in that decade. Don't they like Dems?

The older ones are mostly conservative Democrats like my aunt. Conservative Dems are the ones who remember what country they're in and have respect for it. The younger ones are mostly extreme liberals.

Now that the Holocaust survivors have mostly died out, their message went with them to the grave, and their stupid, pseudo-intellectual offspring, both here and in Israel, are dead set on doing all the same bullshit that has left Jews without a Jewish country throughout history.

Here, they are mostly pro-abortion, anti-gun, very socialistic as regards distributing their fellow taxpayers' money, etc.

If my grandparents were alive to see what the Dems have become and what these punks and punkettes are up to, they would be sick.

Seth, in HS in DC in the 60's, (yes, I really did go there... Mt. Vernon, Class of 64) one of my best friends was a reform Jew. Both of his parent's were ultra-ultra liberal, to the left of Leon Trotsky I think. John on the other hand was as conservative as I and a major supporter of Goldwater as was I. Even after the 6 day war in '67, they didn't change their viewpoint and John became pretty disgusted with them. I think they are probably dead now, both were about 10 years older than my parents. I doubt if they ever changed. Both smart, highly educated, highly intelligent and stupid at the same time.

Over on The Christian Prophet blog the Holy Spirit says Likud will still be a strong influence, but overall the situation will be weaker. Strangely, maybe as a teaching device, it is said that Jews might someday prefer living in Iraq.

GM -- they were(are) a rarity. Go to any big liberal city like NY, Chi or SF today, a city where "intellectuals" congregate, and there you'll find tons of these Jewish liberals. It boggles my mind, because they are for what they should be against, both as Jews and Americans, and vice versa.

And their being anti-gun is insane. The main reason for our right to keep and bear arms is in case the gov't endeavors to do....something like my fellow Jews didn't expect in the 1930s. So it's a case of "no, we never learn lessons the first, second, third, etc time, because we're of much too high an intellect and have so much faith in our ability to reason with other men," or some such silliness.

CP --

You mean, have them turn all that desert wasteland into rich farming country like they did in their present location?

If I recall correctly, part of Iraq is among the land God originally promised Abraham, anyway.

Seth, we have seen a major reconfiguration of political alliances over the past 40-50 years. For people of my parent's generation growing up in the first half of the 20th century, the right was the hotbed of anti-Semitism, both in terms of social segregation ("restricted" for college, business, social clubs, etc.) and later the fascist movement. One reason many Jews of that time turned to the Communist party in the 30's was that they were the major opponents of the fascists. Although many later became disenchanted with Stalin and the Communist party, the instinct was still to associated that the left was "good for the Jews" -- and this continued into the civil rights era with Jews and blacks cooperating against the conservative leaders of the "old" South.

However, over the last 30-40 years, the left has turned 180 degrees and now views the Jews as the new oppressors and even "fascists or Nazis" in a grotesque perversion of language. Once again the Jews are becoming the scapegoat for other groups with a grievance, fanned by the whole Palestinian mythology that has sprung up. Meanwhile, many elements of the right, which previously kissed up to the oil sheiks (think Suez Crisis 1956-7, etc), have now decided that Israel and the Jews are allies against a greater danger. There's also the growing phenomenon of "Christian Zionism" which almost fanatically allies itself with the Jewish nation, through viewing Israel as a pawn in a larger eschatology. (This would be worth more conversation in another venue).

Why then do Jews mostly stay with the left despite its hostility towards Israel and increasing anti-Semetic instincts. For some it's blind instinct, but for others they still think that social justice concerns require a left orientation. Others (perhaps correctly) still don't trust the right and fear that the right will sell out the Jews for oil and/or revert to its past anti-Semitism. Their motto would probably be "better the enemy we know that a supposed friend we don't trust". And some are turned off by the antics of some public figures associated with the Christian Right.

Some things still puzzle me, as to why so many in the Jewish community ally themselves with secularist pro-choice activism. How does this stack up with the emphasis of Judaism on preserving life. But I digress.

And then there is the historical response to persecution -- Jews almost instinctually tend to assume that it's their fault that people hate them" "we've done something wrong to offend them, we need be more understanding, which will lead to a way to make them stop hating us" which leads to self-defeating behavior.

A lot of things going on. Yet, at least among the next generation, I think there is some rethinking going on. For me, in the longer-term, I don't know whether the "right" or the "left" is "better for the Jews" -- in response to the age-old question. Philosophically, I think that today's conservatism is friendlier to Jewish faith and practice compared to today's more secularist left; however there are elements in the "right" that remain hostile to Jews. It's hard to see any haven for traditional Jewish faith and practice on the "left" -- most Jewish leftist seem to end up "reconstructing" Judaism to fit their ideology.

Where does this fit in with the current administration. In brief, I still think that they are torn between Israel's value in the GWOT versus the old-guard Arabists (and oil panderers). As for the American people, however, Jewish interests will find more support from the right. But like a bad marriage, many Jews are still trying to find love from a left that abuses them.

CT-

What disturbs me most is the timing involved here, the fact that this is a crucial time for a large part of the world(the Mid-East, SE Asia, SW Asia, the Euro-countries, the U.S., etc). You and I are both aware that we are fighting a war of which Iraq and Afghanistan are merely elements, not the sum total, and that the outcome of this war will determine whether or not the "free world" remains free or whether it enters a new era of slavery to a doctrine that tolerates absolutely nothing that doesn't comply, in word and deed, with every nuance of its every law.

The Jews that ally themselves with the left, and most of the left, for that matter, seem to be blissfully unaware{?} of the gravity of current events. As I mentioned in a previous post, for example, referring to the recent Muslim rioting in France, the MSM's immediate instinct was to spin the rioters into victims rather than people who have destroyed millions of dollars' worth of property not their own, injured and killed innocent people. A significant number of the journalists involved are Jewish liberals.

They ignore the fact that there are old Soviet briefcase nukes out there as well as chemical and biological weapons, porous U.S. borders and a globally organized extremist faction that has proven repeatedly that the majority of its members are chaffing at the bit to sacrifice their own lives in order to murder as many non-Muslims(and even Muslims who don't subscribe to their doctrine) as they possibly can.

The State of Israel is in very real jeopardy at this juncture and that either doesn't occur to them or doesn't matter to them compared to whatever agendas they now pursue.

Their strategy is akin to confronting an attacking Klingon force by employing passive resistance.

While our government is attempting to defend us against the Islamofascists, the left is busy attacking the government with issues that should be pursued at a later time, not while our forces are in the heat of battle.

The IDF's policy has been to keep women out of combat because they produce children, and Israel needs numbers to counter a hostile neighbor that is multiplying rapidly with several children per family. And, as you indicate above, my religion does indeed believe in the sanctity of human life, yet here in America, Jewish liberals advocate Roe v Wade and the subsequent excesses that go far beyond the decision's actual intent.

There was an article in the Wall Street Journal many years ago about the concern of a lot of older Jews that so many of their children were marrying outside the faith, particularly sons, since in Judaism, it is the mother's faith that determines a child is Jewish. They saw this, correctly, as a threat to the Jewish population.

Because of the 180 degree difference between the customs of the parents' respective religions, the couple moves eventually into a netherworld between the two so that neither ends up being practiced.

In the case of the mother marrying outside the faith, the children are born Jewish but often, because of this same parental compromise, take the reform path or no path at all, and are Jews in name only.

This movement away from religion results, more often than not, in the lack of any religious message being imparted on their children, and the concept of atheism is therefore more acceptable to these kids when it rears its head during their preadolescence, teens or early adulthood.

I see that as having happened, which is why they find it so easy to make demands that we ban God's name from all public forums under the thin guise of concern over violations of the "separation of church and state," a phrase that does not exist in the Constitution and certainly does not remotely apply to the use of God's name, holiday greetings like Merry Christmas or Happy Channukah, the Ten Commandments, a cross, Crucifix or Magen David(Star of David) on a holiday display.

In essence, we have Jewish liberals wilfully 'thinning the herd' so that the Jewish population, already the considerable minority among the world's three major religious disciplines, is shrinking rather than remaining the same or multiplying.

I'm not casting stones here, because my only marriage, over twenty five years ago, was outside the faith and only lasted about four years. I am merely stating my observations and theories, but I am truly mystefied at the excesses to which today's Jewish liberals will go to sabotage both the future of Israel and the living circumstances of their own ascendants.

What they are doing is, in effect, making a pact with a devil they can't even see, and that devil will eventually come to collect his due.